|
|
End Times - General
|
|
| Emergent church | | Recently, during a teaching just prior to or during onething08, Mike said something about the dangers of the Emergent church. I've heard the terms "emergent" and "emerging" church, but don't really know what they're all about, so I did a quick Google and got so many definitions, I didn't know where to start reading, or what to believe. Does Mike or anyone trustworthy address this issue more clearly and completely? If I am supposed to watch out, what am I watching out for? (Sorry if this was the wrong forum to post in, but as a busy mom, I didn't have a lot of time to do a lot of looking.) Thanks!
| | Lori Wangler 1/24/2009, 6:27 PM | |
| | Mark Murphree | 1/25/2009, 7:37 PM | | Mike Bickle recommended D. A. Carson's book _Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church_. I'd also recommend a newer book (that D. A. Carson himself endorsed) _Why We're Not Emergent (by two guys who should be)_ by Kevin Deyoung and Ted Kluck.
For an overview, I'd recommend Sam Storms' extended summaries/reviews of these two books, found here (scroll down):
http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/studies/book-reviews/
| | | David Gagne | 1/25/2009, 8:54 PM | | Mike also recommended a book by John Piper... which I liked better because the focus was on the importance of Christ in the emergent movement.
| | | Lori Wangler | 1/27/2009, 2:49 PM | | Thank you, Mark and David.
| | | Mike Morrell | 10/27/2009, 9:46 AM | | I'm coming in on this thread way late, but I thought I'd suggest a resource for firsthand, primary-source research on all things 'emerging church' - http://zoecarnate.com
The term is rather amorphous; it describes a lot of different groups. In fact, many of the 'heresy-hunter' organizations out there who rail against 'the emerging church' even include IHOP in this description!
Of course we always need to trust the Holy Spirit's discernment; in my experience, emerging church folk are Christian seekers who are looking at how to faithfully think about, and live out, the Gospel of Jesus in our present-day context. This doesn't make them throw out truth - in fact, they tend to be very open to ancient wisdom from long-neglected streams of the Church - much like IHOP, emerging churchers place a high value on loving God not with mind, will, and heart - the latter has led to a similar interest in monastic prayer forms and contemplative prayer, which have enriched IHOP and other 24/7 prayer expressions.
As John Chrysotum so wonderfully put it, "In essentials unity, in non-essentials charity, in all things Jesus Christ"
Selah.
| | | Linda Jamentz | 11/20/2009, 9:13 PM | | if you want to know about the emerging church then you must read authors in the movement. reading about the ec by authors critical of it is like setting out to learn about christianity by reading muslim writers' views on christianity rather than reading the bible itself. that said, here is a link i compiled awhile back with articles from some prominent voices in the movement: http://wwwi-wonder-as-i-wander.blogspot.com/2008/09/so-what-is-this-emergingemergentmission.html
| | | Travis Harger | 12/30/2009, 2:05 PM | | Actually if there's something I kinda disagree with about IHOP is the way they approach the Emergent Church question.
They seem to lump the Emergent movement into a specific group of liberal Christians that go against all fundamental thought.
In actuality Emergent cant be defined...the Emergent church is a movement that goes against traditional structure, and the normal following without question mentality.
Emergent is about opening up the conversation...discussing theologies, discussing why we believe....sure that leads to some parts of the movement becoming quite liberal...but that doesn't define what Emergent is. An open conversation also leads to truth...it leads to a break from religion into reality. An open conversation about endtimes is what broke me away from a pretrib theology that I had mindlessly followed for years.
In some definitions IHOP is emergent...they go against a mold...they break religion...they ask for truth...they emphasize communal living, prayer, a life of real tangible faith, logical look at the scriptures, they are a part of the new monastic movements, they worship from the heart and not out of tradition, they are calling for something new, something fresh, something emerging from the dust of dead churches..
Emergent can be a negative thing...but it can also be a very GOOD thing.
| | | Benjamin Hoogterp | 1/1/2010, 3:28 PM | | Travis said.. "...can't be defined." This logic, in actuality, is the problem behind the "Emergent". It is a reflection of the "don't box me in" attitude which points to a lack of absolutes. The term emergent, for sure, is very broadly applied, and it is good not to argue over words, but taking a no definition stance such as that is just a reflection of the group not knowing who they are. Perhaps this is pointing towards the definition, even using the language you just did afterwards. More or less, with or without certain groups, it could be summed up as... The church who doesn't know who it is and is afraid to be identified with the truth that came before because they don't want to be defined. The church who doesn't know who God is. This last part is probably the most offensive, but follows the logic of scripture.. "If you love me, you will obey my commands." You have some worthwhile points in your message, but in my observation, the "emergent" hasn't reached the foundation, the bedrock. God is good. Righteousness and Justice are the foundation of His throne. Isaiah 8:20 "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
Also, you said, "an open conversation also leads to truth." This is only sometimes true.. depending on how you define "open". Jesus said he was a witness and testified to what he had seen and heard (John 3) and people refused to receive his testimony. Take Paul's admonition of women wearing head coverings which ends with the phrase "... and because of the angels." Paul was aware of a level of reality that many people are not. Hence, he came up with different answers. The emergent church will never reach the correct answers unless they start from the correct perspective. For a human, what this looks like is "faith".. even in something as simple as believing that the best and only way to live correctly is God's way, and not a dumbed down, man-centric version of what they think God REALLY meant, because they believe that God really meant it when He said what He said, or they doubt with, "Did God really say?"...
| | | Earl Click | 1/8/2010, 11:36 AM | | Good points Benjamin. I myself am still looking for a definition of what Emergent Church means. It seems that without it we really cannot judge the tree's fruit for it is like unto one tree in a forest of tree's on the side of a steep hill. We see rotten fruit laying on the ground at the bottom of the hill but are unsure which tree it fell from before rolling down the hill.
I perceive several problems with some of the critics of it in that they lump prayer that has a contemplative meditative quality to it with Eastern Religion practices and are real fond of throwing out the kundalini word. I am beginning to wonder if the motive of some of them with their fondness of ascribing kundalini infiltration is to instill fear and insinuating they possess a secret knowledge and discernment that we the untamed masses are lacking. The danger of an over emphasis of this, as the critics label convulsive jerking and other physical symptoms of flesh in contact with the realm of the spirit as always being symptomatic of demonic activity, is sure to quench the genuine when it does occur especially for some who have now had their pure hearts polluted by fear of deception. I suppose these word are applicable here... ““Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. ” (Matthew 12:33, NASB95)
|
|
|
|
start of topic
|
|
|
Only members of the **OLD** onething group can post in this forum.
|
|
